Nice article, Chris. This stuck out to me: "What I’m mainly looking for is community. Quality friends. And quality enemies, too. Because what else is there?" And your acknowledgement of the monetary reality has been something that I've always accepted and never tried to consider in my own time. The "fame", the recognition, the communication between others who loved what you wrote and want to discuss it with you? Yes, of course. Slightly different from your direct desire for community, but shaded in the same color. That is to say, in my mind, we both desire the same thing from people.
When I tell people I'd happily spend $1000 (to pick a number) on formatting and cover art for a novel I wrote, I inevitably get the comment "But how are you going to make that money back on sales?" And the answer is: I don't expect to. I want to make something that I'm proud of, that I can share, and that will always be mine. When I'm very old and looking at my shelf, I'll see books that I worked hard on years ago that still look just as I desired them to look when I wrote it. You can't put a price on that and you can't expect money back from that. It's not about the money. It's about the craft, the art. That matters more than anything else.
In any case, cheers from me. This topic has been on my mind a bit recently, likely because of the holiday season. Thanks for writing it.
Thanks, Miles! I think the important point comes when you realize you like writers as people (or at least certain types of writers) and you just want to be around them. If we're all freaks and geeks in a dying industry, then so be it. I still want to be around them and contribute to whatever collective literary goals we have.
"A wise ex-girlfriend once told me that I hated everything about myself except my writing. While I do have more self-esteem than that, she was onto something in that my writing is what I value most in myself. It’s no coincidence that only by sharing such writing have I been able to meet the friends I’ve wanted all my life."
I relate to this 110%. I came to NYC in 2019 and online dating supplied friendships until the 12-step recovery world stepped in (I'm 14 years sober). It's a tough racket, especially in Manhattan.
Great article! I'm a musician. I've had no dreams of success. For years I would just record stuff at home, often not finishing songs, never sharing them. At one point I decided to release an album, which these days is pretty much just shouting into the ether. My initial motivations were to express myself creatively, and to see a large project through completion. I had no expectations that anyone would even listen. But I never expected the community I've found from making music, both in real life and online. My community of other musicians is now probably the #1 reason I make music. It's allowed me to find my people, and I'm incredibly thankful for that.
It's funny how many other hobbies are inherently social. A lot of people join a bowling league or something for the social aspect. The arts though are often seen as a hobby purely for self-expression and often solitary. In fact it can be just as much of a social outlet as joining a board gaming group or something.
Thanks, Jeff. I read a lot online about people who join things like sports leagues or run clubs or crafts groups, but don't find them to be that conducive to making new friends. I don't think writing itself is all that great, either. For instance, I took a writing class when I got to NYC but found it hard to make friends with others. It's probably because just writing, or any common interest, in and of itself isn't enough to be the basis of any relationship. It has to be more than that.
So for every piece I write that connects with someone and with whom I may potentially become friends, there would've been thousands who couldn't have cared less about what I wrote. And these people might've been reading/writing enthusiasts themselves. But what I had to say didn't interest them. Trying to meet that 1-in-a-1000 person who gets you (and vice versa) would be such an arduous process, unless you could just launch a piece of writing out there in hopes that those whom you are meant to draw will naturally find it.
This is a wonderful read and something I needed. Spent my first three years out of college aimless and looking for something, anything to do, and I found a little community here, online of all places. It's not much, not enough to pay the bills or anything, but it's something to occupy my time and make me less manic in general, — and I've met so many wonderful writers here, — and more importantly, I no longer have the serious doubts about my future like I had two years ago when I was 23 reading Pessoa at the bottom of a self-pity barrel.
I have a feeling we're just getting started with the community building here,—looking forward to the future for the first time in a while. There always seems to be a new essayist coming out of the woodwork. It's so hopeful and unique and fun. The future ain't too bad.
Thanks Griffin! It's not weird at all anymore to find one's community online. Now, it's more of a question of what kind of community. I've been on a lot of prior publishing and social media platforms before, and each new wave seems to be more conducive to building communities.
For example, I first began writing online in various fan forums. Those were completely anonymous and there was next to no chance (or willingness) to meet other participants. Then there were comments sections of articles (e.g. Disqus) where you could have more open discussions that weren't just among random fans of some computer game. Then came Reddit and Twitter where things became even more centralized. But the problem with those platforms was that they were too anonymous, like Reddit, or too rapid-paced, like Twitter.
So I'm very encouraged by this newest iteration of online community-making that's more based on long-form writing. Today it's on Substack. Maybe sooner or later, it'll be elsewhere. But it's nice to know there are lots of people who want something like that.
"I’ve met many people who want to write but are afraid they have nothing to say and that writing would just be an exercise in narcissism. The thing is writing is indeed narcissistic. But it’s also a generous narcissism, to expose some part of you in hopes that total strangers will connect with what you’ve written."
You're right, both about the narcissism and generosity of writing, but I often think about how there’s no upper limit on the volume of writing we can collectively produce, really – so why not just all go for it? If we had limited space and bandwidth, perhaps it would be selfish to publish stuff that was niche, badly written or poorly read, but we don't! There's nothing to lose, except the time it takes to write.
Also, funny that Freddie deB got the "shitty pizza" part of your early move to literary NYC spot on, huh?
Agreed about there being no real harm about volume of writing. Also, I should've walked to the end of the block to East Village Pizza, which has become my favourite non-fancy NYC pizza.
Chris! I've loved all your pieces that I've read but this one feels particularly resonant, as an amateur writer 5ish years out of undergrad about to move to NYC and seek writerly friends. My dreams are small and contained, but my most recent piece was about the same thing: "What I’m mainly looking for is community. Quality friends. And quality enemies, too. Because what else is there?"
I see my writing as a way to relish in what I enjoy about my life (art and people I meet) and attempt to bring more of it into my life. I'm sure you relate.
Separately, the asymmetry of knowledge of people I meet is so interesting — discovering that people I only vaguely know have read my writing is so fascinating (and energizing) and something I've grown used to. I imagine that it's only fed into my vanity (or maybe it's just narcissism at this point), but I don't hate it.
Really really liked this piece, feels like it meshes with my own experiences. I've been writing on the internet since I was 14( still cringing that somehow I had a political take on Donald Trump from that time). I've had a lot of moments of doubt, if there's even a point writing when so many people far better than me are able to put forward the same takes; but at the end of the day it's better to be able to look back at some years of posts and writings rather than nothing.
It's also really helped me stay social and connect with more people, especially post-graduation; a writing circle is an excellent way to get people to get together regularly and well even high-profile writers can be incredibly accessible and personable, especially if one lives in a place with a relatively small literary scene.
Thanks, Zubin! My sense is that we don't ever really regret writing that was honest and principled (as opposed to pandering to an audience for approval) at the time.
Nice article, Chris. This stuck out to me: "What I’m mainly looking for is community. Quality friends. And quality enemies, too. Because what else is there?" And your acknowledgement of the monetary reality has been something that I've always accepted and never tried to consider in my own time. The "fame", the recognition, the communication between others who loved what you wrote and want to discuss it with you? Yes, of course. Slightly different from your direct desire for community, but shaded in the same color. That is to say, in my mind, we both desire the same thing from people.
When I tell people I'd happily spend $1000 (to pick a number) on formatting and cover art for a novel I wrote, I inevitably get the comment "But how are you going to make that money back on sales?" And the answer is: I don't expect to. I want to make something that I'm proud of, that I can share, and that will always be mine. When I'm very old and looking at my shelf, I'll see books that I worked hard on years ago that still look just as I desired them to look when I wrote it. You can't put a price on that and you can't expect money back from that. It's not about the money. It's about the craft, the art. That matters more than anything else.
In any case, cheers from me. This topic has been on my mind a bit recently, likely because of the holiday season. Thanks for writing it.
Thanks, Miles! I think the important point comes when you realize you like writers as people (or at least certain types of writers) and you just want to be around them. If we're all freaks and geeks in a dying industry, then so be it. I still want to be around them and contribute to whatever collective literary goals we have.
"A wise ex-girlfriend once told me that I hated everything about myself except my writing. While I do have more self-esteem than that, she was onto something in that my writing is what I value most in myself. It’s no coincidence that only by sharing such writing have I been able to meet the friends I’ve wanted all my life."
I relate to this 110%. I came to NYC in 2019 and online dating supplied friendships until the 12-step recovery world stepped in (I'm 14 years sober). It's a tough racket, especially in Manhattan.
Thanks Mike! Glad to hear you're doing well now.
Great article! I'm a musician. I've had no dreams of success. For years I would just record stuff at home, often not finishing songs, never sharing them. At one point I decided to release an album, which these days is pretty much just shouting into the ether. My initial motivations were to express myself creatively, and to see a large project through completion. I had no expectations that anyone would even listen. But I never expected the community I've found from making music, both in real life and online. My community of other musicians is now probably the #1 reason I make music. It's allowed me to find my people, and I'm incredibly thankful for that.
It's funny how many other hobbies are inherently social. A lot of people join a bowling league or something for the social aspect. The arts though are often seen as a hobby purely for self-expression and often solitary. In fact it can be just as much of a social outlet as joining a board gaming group or something.
Thanks, Jeff. I read a lot online about people who join things like sports leagues or run clubs or crafts groups, but don't find them to be that conducive to making new friends. I don't think writing itself is all that great, either. For instance, I took a writing class when I got to NYC but found it hard to make friends with others. It's probably because just writing, or any common interest, in and of itself isn't enough to be the basis of any relationship. It has to be more than that.
So for every piece I write that connects with someone and with whom I may potentially become friends, there would've been thousands who couldn't have cared less about what I wrote. And these people might've been reading/writing enthusiasts themselves. But what I had to say didn't interest them. Trying to meet that 1-in-a-1000 person who gets you (and vice versa) would be such an arduous process, unless you could just launch a piece of writing out there in hopes that those whom you are meant to draw will naturally find it.
This is a wonderful read and something I needed. Spent my first three years out of college aimless and looking for something, anything to do, and I found a little community here, online of all places. It's not much, not enough to pay the bills or anything, but it's something to occupy my time and make me less manic in general, — and I've met so many wonderful writers here, — and more importantly, I no longer have the serious doubts about my future like I had two years ago when I was 23 reading Pessoa at the bottom of a self-pity barrel.
I have a feeling we're just getting started with the community building here,—looking forward to the future for the first time in a while. There always seems to be a new essayist coming out of the woodwork. It's so hopeful and unique and fun. The future ain't too bad.
Thanks Griffin! It's not weird at all anymore to find one's community online. Now, it's more of a question of what kind of community. I've been on a lot of prior publishing and social media platforms before, and each new wave seems to be more conducive to building communities.
For example, I first began writing online in various fan forums. Those were completely anonymous and there was next to no chance (or willingness) to meet other participants. Then there were comments sections of articles (e.g. Disqus) where you could have more open discussions that weren't just among random fans of some computer game. Then came Reddit and Twitter where things became even more centralized. But the problem with those platforms was that they were too anonymous, like Reddit, or too rapid-paced, like Twitter.
So I'm very encouraged by this newest iteration of online community-making that's more based on long-form writing. Today it's on Substack. Maybe sooner or later, it'll be elsewhere. But it's nice to know there are lots of people who want something like that.
"I’ve met many people who want to write but are afraid they have nothing to say and that writing would just be an exercise in narcissism. The thing is writing is indeed narcissistic. But it’s also a generous narcissism, to expose some part of you in hopes that total strangers will connect with what you’ve written."
You're right, both about the narcissism and generosity of writing, but I often think about how there’s no upper limit on the volume of writing we can collectively produce, really – so why not just all go for it? If we had limited space and bandwidth, perhaps it would be selfish to publish stuff that was niche, badly written or poorly read, but we don't! There's nothing to lose, except the time it takes to write.
Also, funny that Freddie deB got the "shitty pizza" part of your early move to literary NYC spot on, huh?
Agreed about there being no real harm about volume of writing. Also, I should've walked to the end of the block to East Village Pizza, which has become my favourite non-fancy NYC pizza.
Chris! I've loved all your pieces that I've read but this one feels particularly resonant, as an amateur writer 5ish years out of undergrad about to move to NYC and seek writerly friends. My dreams are small and contained, but my most recent piece was about the same thing: "What I’m mainly looking for is community. Quality friends. And quality enemies, too. Because what else is there?"
I see my writing as a way to relish in what I enjoy about my life (art and people I meet) and attempt to bring more of it into my life. I'm sure you relate.
Separately, the asymmetry of knowledge of people I meet is so interesting — discovering that people I only vaguely know have read my writing is so fascinating (and energizing) and something I've grown used to. I imagine that it's only fed into my vanity (or maybe it's just narcissism at this point), but I don't hate it.
Thanks Nikhil! I'll be sure to read your piece soon. Let me know when you come to NYC.
Really really liked this piece, feels like it meshes with my own experiences. I've been writing on the internet since I was 14( still cringing that somehow I had a political take on Donald Trump from that time). I've had a lot of moments of doubt, if there's even a point writing when so many people far better than me are able to put forward the same takes; but at the end of the day it's better to be able to look back at some years of posts and writings rather than nothing.
It's also really helped me stay social and connect with more people, especially post-graduation; a writing circle is an excellent way to get people to get together regularly and well even high-profile writers can be incredibly accessible and personable, especially if one lives in a place with a relatively small literary scene.
Thanks, Zubin! My sense is that we don't ever really regret writing that was honest and principled (as opposed to pandering to an audience for approval) at the time.
Merry Christmas! Hope we meet later on
Yes, let's hope Latvia doesn't come between us next time haha
Great piece man, looking forward to reading that book one day.
Thanks, Andrew! I look forward to your second book
Me too haha. Just gotta write it first...
Good stuff!
Thanks Michelle! You seem like you're pretty decent skateboarder now, btw!
Merry Christmas to you!
Thanks, Betsy! To you as well